SnuRk: “He is the greatest UO player of all time” • And here are 9 other potential goats
Who is the greatest player of all times to play Call of Duty United Offensive? The question is as open-ended as it gets and a suicide mission to try and answer. Nevertheless I decided I will try and do my best to settle it once and for all.
So where do one even begin? Well you don’t have to be Sherlock Holmes to come to the conclusion I am going to start with … stats.
However there are several major issues with taking that road.
First of all: the kind of data we possess these days only covers from mid 2020 and forward. That means it’s completely impossible to compare the 2005-2007-era or the 2010-2012-era with todays 2020-2023-era. What we witness today is however 1/3 of the total competitive UO history and this is worth taking into consideration.
It’s easy to end up in an argument that such a big part of UO history was played the first years after the release, but in terms of active years that isn’t quite true. What is true though is that the competition was way tougher in the early days. Cups could have everything between 48-80 signups. And in tier 1 there were so many good teams. Having that said it is also my absolute belief that todays best teams and best players are stronger then the ones from 2005.
Diego Maradona was a genious, insane talent and ahead of his time. But would he stand out in todays football the same way Lionel Messi does? I doubt it. Football evolved and so does esport.
Surely I think many UO players from 2005 could be great in 2023 if they spent the same time they did back then. But I guess what I’m trying to say is that what was done in 2005 isn’t necessarily more impressive then what is done now in modern days.
What also messes up the comparison slightly is the fact that most old players only played on a pam-mode granting survival and plant point bonuses. Someone ’topfragging’ back then might not have been the most impactful player. For example with the old pam-mode players like SnuRk, cartz and prm – to name some – would look a lot better then we do today because of the sheer fact we die very few times compared to average.
In my hunt for some sort of data to lean towards I did take a different angle.
If it’s impossible to compare individual performances from one era with another, it’s at least possible to compare team performances.
A cup won is a cup won.
For the simplicity of things I started counting titles. God knows there have been plenty of minicups or hosted cups over the years. I decided to not count these. Premier League in OpenCups was always the real deal on Clanbase, the same way our major cups today is what matters.
Since the first OC in 2005 there have been 17 cups with major status (5v5 SD).
- 6 majors 2005-2007.
- 4 majors 2010-2012.
- 7 majors 2020-2023.
I decided to not count Reborn #1 for a couple of reasons. Being a weekend cup, with a pretty loose and ’friendly’ ruleset and mappool, and having a weaker field of teams then many ”funcups” made it just not feel right to consider it a major.
Gathering a list of the most succesful players in major cups shows TjEEEBi (FRS) is the only player to have won 6 Grand finals. SnuRk and Jsons (FRS) follow closely behind with 5 titles and thereafter comes Hatcheriii (FRS), xratEd (FRS), L1mewax (TcfC), STVNO (TcfC) and cartz (TcfC) with 4 respectively.
However all of these players won their titles from 2010 and onwards. Meaning none of them have a trophy from the most stacked era of UO.
As most people know the by far most succesful team during the first era of UO was finnish Kylahullut. They played three Grand finals during the most insane period and had two players being a part of all those three winning lineups – Icy Firefly (Aisi) and Magara (GiN).
Another fin is also among the players to have three titles from that era. Im talking about kevemooses who won cups with both Kylahullut and here2own.
What makes Icy Firefly, Magara and keveemooses stand out is that they also never lost a Grand final. They played three each and got a 100% win rate. Best when it matters.
TjEEEBi, who has won the most titles, have a 60% winrate in finals, having lost four. SnuRk is on a 5/9 streak and a guy like STVNO have won 4/8 finals in his career.
Someone who stands out in this category is Jsons who have played the fourth most Grand finals and won 5 out of 7 attempts putting him at 71% winrate.
Most titles won:
- TjEEEBi, 6.
- SnuRk, Jsons, 5.
- Hatcheriii, xratEd, L1mewax, STVNO, cartz, 4.
- Funze, dietchi, norberto, Messy, GiN, Aisi, keveemooses, 3.
- Kuzelius, nreo, choobie, mAAmu, banksy, nanaaa, 2.
Most Grand finals lost:
- STVNO, TjEEEBi, SnuRk, 4.
- Ace, L1mewax, rvrsd, 3.
- xratEd, dietchi, Gerlo, Messy, lacas, meti-o, marchello, cartz, Jsons, Hatcheriii, 2.
Disclaimer: To be part of the list the players must have been in the lineup playing the Grand final. Backups are not counted. There is also a long list of players with 1 title won or 1 grand final lost, these are not presented.
”But now you are mostly talking about players that are active today. What about all those legends?”
Yes that is true. There are plenty of legends from older days. But most of them only played in the first era of three years (some even quit after a year), meaning longevity and stacking trophies is not something they have done.
Even a guy like Ev!L H0meR (H2k), whom by many is considered the best individual player to have ever played UO, don’t have a single trophy written to his name. Ladders were a big thing, and H2k had huge success there. But I still don’t think it held the same status as winning a cup.
”But shouldn’t a goat have been among the best players of all three eras?”
No I dont think so. Also we are then kind of speaking about 2-3 players that consistently been up there since 2005ish. Those players would be cartz, Gerlo and STVNO. And although I have the biggest respect for the hungarians it would be a stretch to say they were considered the best players in 2005-2007, although they did compete on the highest of levels. Gerlo was surely considered among the best in the ’early’ days but just like Ev!L H0meR he still haven’t won a cup, despite being active through all eras.
Among other names that are frequently mentioned in goat-discussions I guess we find guys like choobie (h2o), Kuzelius (KH), anyone from the first OC-winners HeXagon, woffen (KH/h2o/Gangstas), King (Czech Republic), Maati (DFO/KH/h2o), Kri5 (wOh), riddle (eXentric/myfrus), Strike (eXentric) and prekii (myfrus). Hell, there are probably 10 players per country people would mention if we opened up a discussion about it.
But someone I rate even higher then above mentioned group of players would be nreo.
The here2own-star won two OpenCups and lost one final. But for me it’s more about looking beyond the actual trophies here and just valuing the pure dominance individually. Among the players who have impressed the most, regardless of era, nreo is a name that I carry while eliminating others.
I actually don’t think it would be wrong to say that the englishmen is the best player to ever have played UO. And anyone claiming so isn’t wrong. But when we reach the last few names to discuss it’s a matter of personal taste. And for me nreo will just reach top 3. Because I actually think there are two other players who have made an even bigger impact for a longer period of time and been even more ahead of their time. And they are both from Finland.
”But L1mewax isn’t from Finland and you just named him the best player of both 2021 and 2022”?
Yes that is perfectly true. And I believe the hungarian might very well be a player for these type of discussions in the future. But for now most of his performances are from 2020 and onwards. He was a good tier 1-player during 2010-2012 era, but among the players in TcfC it was cartz who was the star and even STVNO and Messy had a higher reputation then L1mewax. If he can keep stacking trophies, while showing individual dominance, I might value him higher at the end of 2023.
Among the two fins that I am considering to be the goat I am not placing my teammate Hatcheriii. Just like many other names mentioned here I think Hatch on an individual skill might be the goat. The 2010-2012 era I think he was the #1 player. In general it was an era where FRS dominated in terms of major titles, picking up three in a row (FallCup 2010, SpringCup 2011, FallCup 2011). What also stood out is that we did it with the exact same five-man-lineup, something no other team have done (TcfC keeping Messy instead of COBR4CSKA in last Grand final had put them on the same level). And in this lineup Hatcheriii was the big carry. After reviewing all demos from all cupmatches FRS played in 2010-2012 I could gather some stats for our team. It looked like this:
Allstar stats, FRS 2010-2012
- Hatcheriii, 2,44 (0,96 KPR, 1,48 KDR).
- SnuRk, 2,17 (0,80, 1,37).
- Funze, 2,17 (0,86, 1,31).
- TjEEEBi, 2,13 (0,81, 1,32).
- Jsons, 1,80 (0,71, 1,09).
First of all this is probably the most succesful lineup of all time in UO. These stats are over a two year-period of time. If you would put these scores and compare them to the 2022 rankings I’m sure all players had been on a top 20-ranking, the four highest rated players had all been top 10 and Hatcheriii probably player of the year.
Hatcheriii has had the highest highs of any FRS player ever. But he does not have as many titles, or activity in the modern days, as TjEEEBi. Therefor I am rating TjEEEBi higher when I’m trying to find out who is the goat.
However TjEEEBi isn’t my goat either.
Despite being the player with the most titles ever.
Despite always having a huge impact on FRS success.
Despite developing a playstyle that is unique.
Although consistently being among the 10 best players in the game since 2010, and for the last years certainly among the 2 best, I think TjEEEBi lack a longer period of time where he have been considered THE best. That period of time would at most stretch from fall of 2020 to summer of 2021. For the rest of his active years he have often been slightly behind either Hatcheriii or L1mewax.
When taking everything into consideration I do end up with another player as the greatest to have ever played UO:
I am not the only one to consider the finnish star the best ever. Already 15 years ago he was considered perhaps the greatest. He started as a carry in Karhukopla, a strong finnish team that never won anything. But it was in here2own and Kylahullut he reached his full potential. Being the best player in two of the best teams ever, in the toughest competitive days of UO and winning 3 out of 3 finals being among the best players on the server. For me that is special. If the FRS lineup I was a part of in 2010-2012 was the one winning the most titles, I still consider the h2o lineup consisting of nreo, kevemooses, choobie, woffen and sneaker to be the best of all time. Literally anyone of them could be the goat, but keveemooses was in my eyes the best. That says a lot seeing how good teammates he had.
Having played both with and against him I can also vouch for his consistency and insane aim. At times he was just unbeatable, especially with mp44 and BAR. But he was also no stranger to rifling. He was the complete player with a nutty gamesense and therefor pulled of the sickest clutches in a way that was ahead of his time. But he was also equally strong at playing anchor on the hardest spots of the maps and more often then not shut those positions down completely.
Knowing he was also an incredibly humble person doesn’t make him more of a goat – but certainly makes him more likeable wielding that cape.
So yes, keveemooses is my goat. But what researching for this article made me even more aware of is that there is no “right” answer. If I were to make a shortlist of players that I could argument for it would come down to:
- Icy Firefly
- Ev!L H0meR
Seeing as there are a couple of players with more titles then keveemooses, who are still active and might win even more, and also dominate similarly to what he did in 2006-2007, it’s worth considering if someone can ever proove his worth more then the finnish player did?
UO will never again have 48+ signups for a cup. The competition will never be so tough that a team like TcfC will risk miss A-playoff.
I actually don’t have a good answer to the question if someone ever will be more of a goat in my eyes then keveemooses. Future will just have to show.
From the still active players on my shortlist I would say the players need to show this to reach his level:
TjEEEBi: Win player of the year for at least one year.
Hatcheriii: More activity in the modern era where he dominates for at least one full year.
L1mewax: Being named player of the year three times in a row would make a good case. At the same time as he would need to get closer to TjEEEBi in total amount of major titles won.
cartz: Would need to have the same individual impact as 2010-2012, and outperform L1mewax, while he keeps winning titles.
Goat team? Well I would be pretty biased. But here is the list of major trophies:
Handle that information any way you see fit.
Great read as always Snurk!!
I think it is time for you to get a weekly column at the United Base Paper.
After that 21-0 FRS screenshot we might have to evaluate the current status, which is apparently not that high 😉